Weapons for arming inexperienced survivors


Storm.rider Posted: Sun, 06/28/2009 - 23:18

During the z-paw, weapons will no doubt be a valuable, in-demand commodity.

Say you are in a group of prepared survivors and you have come across others who were not as prepared but were lucky enough to survive. For the sake of argument, your group is about 8 strong and very self sufficient as it is with a fortified base with a garden, a setup to purify and us more than enough water, ovens and stove powerd by that renewable resource wood, even solar power, and weapons with plenty of ammo. Some would argue that you're already setup and should not bother with other people, but rather than become hermits you've decided to expand your number, thereby further spreading out the work load to better your quality of life for yourselves and other people among other advantages. But most prepared people have taken the same path as you and will not be showing up to join someone else's group. So you will be taking in unprepared people; not useless or anything as they deffinately seem to be good, able people who just didn't prepare like you did for whatever reason. You could upgrade from your little collecton of rabbits and the 2 goats you have as livestock to some chickens, maybe even start using horses if you add some able bodied workers to your farm, maybe one of the survivors has a specialized skill that would come in handy for everyone. (if you meet an experienced surgeon or paramedic who happens to have never held a weapon before, would you turn him or her away?)

But I digress, I am posting this to throw around some ideas of how to arm people who may have never been armed before.

I would love to be more generous to someone than to just throw them a sharp stick and say go get em, but at the same time when you are talking about someone who may have never held a weapon before I would not give them something like an AR right off the bat. Not only does such a weapon require more knowledge to use but ammo would be beyond valuable, and in the hands of someone with no training they could burn through 30 precious rounds in 20 seconds or less without hitting a thing, let alone a zombie head.

For this exact reason I would most likely rule out semi-autos as a first gun for new recruits.

Older, cheaper manually operated guns are what I would be more likely to hand to the newb on the team. Keep in mind that when I would likely not put a complete newb into front line zombat unless it is absolutely neccesary, but would rather have them start out on rear duties in most cases, such as ferrying supplies to the front line. I would deffinately want them to be armed in this situation though, because it is quite likely that they would have to take a few shots, plus it's great training.

Instead of an expensive semi auto pistol (lets say an FNP-9) that could burn through 16 rounds before and put in 16 more before you can say "zombies up ahead!", I may give them an old revolver. I don't know about duing todays gun panic but fairly recently I have seen S&W Model 10 revolvers for $100. That price would be for a very used one with holster wear and scratches, but very capable nonetheless. Not to mention the regular pressure .38 special rounds it takes are fairly cheap too.

There are many other old .38s in the same price range as the Model 10 but that's the one that comes to mind anyway. Reason I suggest this over a fancy semi-auto is that for one they are much simpler in just about every way. No magazine to drop and lose, the cylinder is attatched. Cleaning is just about self explanatory, and it takes about a minute to show someone how to work a revolver. And the problem of burning through ammo solves itself, when the person has to reload the 6 shots one by one they will become much more careful about their shooting.

Another option would be the shotgun. Most shotguns, with the exception of fancy semi-autos will be extremely simple to learn anyway. A pump shotgun, again easy to use and like the revolver, hard to burn through too much ammo too quickly. Most pump shotguns are pretty cheap, aside from super fancy sporting models and super ultra tactic00l models with all the latest rail mounts and stuff. Mossbergs and Remingtons among others can be had for well under $300 brand new. You can get used ones for much cheaper, and even really old pump guns are as good as new ones in most cases.

An even cheaper option would be a single shot or double barrel. Doubles these days are usually expensive sporting guns but you can find some old utilitarian ones for under $150 easily. And single shot shotguns on the used market can be easily found for less then $60. And for those induviduals who have a hard time with 12 gauge recoil there are many smaller but still powerful and easily found shotgun loads out there such as 20 gauge and .410, the latter of which just about anyone could shoot. It doesn't get any simpler than a break barrel shotgun, for ease of use, cleaning, everything.

And last but certainly not least on my list are rifles. Surplus bolt actions would be the first thing I would hand out when it comes to rifles. The first thing that comes to mind is the Mosin-Nagant. These can be had for $100 or less, and surplus ammo is still very available and much cheaper than most other centerfire cartridges these days. Being a 5 shot bolt action it will also make your newb careful about his or her shots. And you can reload it pretty quickly from stripper clips.

This weapon is extremely durable and easy to work. It was designed with the uneducated pheasant with little or no experience with weapons to pick up and use easily, and I don't doubt that it could still serve that purpose. While a newb won't be making any 300 yard+ headshots with this or any weapon they could probably do it at under 60 yards with a few minutes practice. Longer range Rifle shooting is a big skill to master, until then the Mosin has a hell of a bayonet!

So anyway, that's what I could think of for now. Any other ideas? Thoughts? Criticizm?

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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Bluewolf25 Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 01:01
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I actually do have quite a few used guns that I purchased for just that reason. I buy them from people that have dirt bottom prices. Its a good idea honestly in my opinion. If you can save a life I believe you should.

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Bango Skank Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 02:07

I enjoyed this post as I would be the one reciving the relitivly easy to use weapons. Thanks for looking after the gun noobs =P

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ssgtgallo Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 02:33
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Another simple weapon:

The sharp end goes towards the enemy.

Taste the salt of my tears
Take the wealth of my years
Singing in the millennium with you
Resolutions for show
Old ways don't seem to know
Singing in the millennium with you

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Storm.rider Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 14:56
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Blades are a simple weapon but they require training to use correctly. Don't get me worng I think they would be a valuable asset during a zombie apocalypse, but a GOOD sword will cost well over $150 right now, and that is about the cheapest I have seen usable blades. Yes you can get one for $25 at a flea market but those suck, you would be better off with a sharpened stick than one of those. For instace, everyone seems to like Katanas, I know that cold steel's Warriar Katana is $550, and that is for thier cheaper Katana! $550 would go a long way for other preps, you could buy a ton of storable food for that price, a sizable ammount of ammo depending on what kind and guns. If you plan to make use of blades, get yours and take classes now, or at least get an instructional DVD or 2 to learn from.

A decent axe however would probaby be something I'd loan. Doesn't take any special skills to wield an axe, just upper body strength.

Thanks for the replies.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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shaolin_spade00 Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 16:51
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This is a very valuable post, a lot of quality information, well thought out. I really like it, great job! Revolvers are really great for beginners, coming from experience, it was the first gun my dad ever let me shoot, and I became proficient with it fairly quickly. Smiling

One bite and you're zed, so aim for the head! Conserve ammo in our fight against the undead enemy!

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Sherry Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 17:00
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I have 2 old S&W M10's and love them. a old Victory and a nickel staghorn griped snub nose. 38Spl is one of My fav pistol calibers. Loaded with Buffalo Bore Ammunition 38 Special 158 gr Lead SWHP standard velocity rated for weeker revolvers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=453925

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Ammo - 158 gr. Soft Lead SWC-HC (850fps/M.E. 253 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Due to customer demand, we've developed this defensive 38SPL ammo. Our customers wanted some devastating 38SPL loads that would fill the following criteria.

1. It won't hurt older/fragile/alloy revolvers. (Non +P)
2. Is effective as a "fight stopper" through the use of proper bullets.
3. Is more powerful than typical/standard, weak 38SPL ammo.
4. Generate much less recoil than our +P 38SPL ammo.
5. Is flash suppressed.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=110

With boldness be it blade or bullet if I see it I can kill it..
Rattan fighting sticks and Itak's since I was 3, 22 rifles at 6, shotguns at 8 (410 and 20 Ga) and handguns at 15 years of age.

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StodgyAyatollah Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 17:41
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Storm.rider wrote:
It was designed with the uneducated pheasant with little or no experience with weapons to pick up and use easily,

Was going to throw together a pic of that (pheasant with a mosin nagant) decided not to waste the time.

Good post I think it definitely addresses the issue that many survivors will not be prepared and how to deal with them. I would be reluctant however to hand out guns to strangers even when they are abundant. Although in most cases I think it would be preferable to give someone "a fighting chance" than to leave them defenseless.

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Storm.rider Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 19:23
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Sherry wrote:
I have 2 old S&W M10's and love them. a old Victory and a nickel staghorn griped snub nose. 38Spl is one of My fav pistol calibers. Loaded with Buffalo Bore Ammunition 38 Special 158 gr Lead SWHP standard velocity rated for weeker revolvers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=453925

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Ammo - 158 gr. Soft Lead SWC-HC (850fps/M.E. 253 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Due to customer demand, we've developed this defensive 38SPL ammo. Our customers wanted some devastating 38SPL loads that would fill the following criteria.

1. It won't hurt older/fragile/alloy revolvers. (Non +P)
2. Is effective as a "fight stopper" through the use of proper bullets.
3. Is more powerful than typical/standard, weak 38SPL ammo.
4. Generate much less recoil than our +P 38SPL ammo.
5. Is flash suppressed.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=110

That looks like a really good load, probably comparable to 9mm even. Bit expensive but that's ok, I generally don't use defensive ammo to practice with. Just plain .38 is still pretty cheap around here when you can find it, cheaper than 9mm usually. Although I would hesitate to use the cheap .38 in a defensive situation right now as it lacks power and expansion for center mass shots, I bet it would be effective in a "headshot only" situation.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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ssgtgallo Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 22:51
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I beg to differ, a bladed weapon, yes if in the hands of a well trained individual would be seriously dangerous, but, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, swing hard, and parts fall off.

Taste the salt of my tears
Take the wealth of my years
Singing in the millennium with you
Resolutions for show
Old ways don't seem to know
Singing in the millennium with you

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Storm.rider Posted: Mon, 06/29/2009 - 23:51
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dloed wrote:
Most of those weapons seam like they are little overpowered for a beginer. I remember the first time I shot a 20 guage. It was not an experience I wanted to repeat immediatly after I fired the first shot. I got used to it but it took me a while. I can't imagine an inexperienced shooter being that useful with a 12 guage shotgun right off the bat. I would suggest melee weapons and maybe some small caliber carbines.

How old were you when you shot it? I ask because I remember having trouble with the 12 gauge when I was much younger but as I got older, 13 or so, I had no problem at all and did pretty well with clay pigeons. And I must mention that at that age I was the archetypical 90 pound weakling...I learned fast that you can really cut down on felt recoil by using a proper stance and holding the butt of the gun tightly against the shoulder.

Of the guns on my list I admit that the Mosin and most 12 gauge shotguns would have a bit of a learning curve for the beginer. I would probably not give these to smaller people but most grownups could handle them. The .38 has almost no recoil though, anyone could shoot that. Same with a .410, And for all shoulder weapons, you'd be suprised how much a recoil pad on the buttstock helps out. I think that with a regular powered load, maybe a slightly smaller shot size like #2 or #4 and a good pad most people could handle at least a 20 gauge with not a whole lot of hangups.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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