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Defeatisim and high Treason are punishable by a squadbuster in your pants
i was actually being somewhat honest with the chainsaw thing, don't really see how you could do it though...i personally would get a rack for the shotgun for additional shells in a convenient location. Other than that i don't know
my personal recomendation would be go for the TAC-2 then cut off the stock and leave the grip but make shure you get the 22" not the 18" as that is 2 more shots before you have to reload.
Rifles rifles rifles.... it all depends on what your going to be useing it for if you want to be sniping then I would recomend somthing like a sporterised brit .303 or a Dragonov but if your expecting them to get too close for the longer range then your going to want somthing that you can shoot fast and reload fast like a AR-15 or a AK-47
here are some that I can recomend (having fired them)
If you choose the SKS tho you will need to buy stripper clips as it does not have a detachable magazine and if you go for the carbine you will want to get a red dot sight and a rail system for it as well...
well thats my 2 cents and im shure that sanchez can expand on what I have said as well as NYE (where is he BTW?) .
Will you hold me back? If need be I will leave you behind...
my personal recomendation would be go for the TAC-2 then cut off the stock and leave the grip but make shure you get the 22" not the 18" as that is 2 more shots before you have to reload.
Rifles rifles rifles.... it all depends on what your going to be useing it for if you want to be sniping then I would recomend somthing like a sporterised brit .303 or a Dragonov but if your expecting them to get too close for the longer range then your going to want somthing that you can shoot fast and reload fast like a AR-15 or a AK-47
here are some that I can recomend (having fired them)
If you choose the SKS tho you will need to buy stripper clips as it does not have a detachable magazine and if you go for the carbine you will want to get a red dot sight and a rail system for it as well...
well thats my 2 cents and im shure that sanchez can expand on what I have said as well as NYE (where is he BTW?) .
I beg to differ about the SKS having to use stripper clips. I used to have an SKS and you can modify it to hold an actual mag. I had 2 30 round banana mags for mine. Only problem about an sks with a big clip like that is that they tend to jam after about 10-15 rounds of rapid firing.
EDITED by Dragisoni due to the use of the word "clips" when the word "mags" should have been used.
With the shotgun, I would really, really urge you not to cut off the stock. Despite what you see in the movies, a shotgun really is not fun at all to shoot with only a pistol grip. In addition it will make it quite a bit more difficult to aim effectively. A good cheek weld is necessary to accurately fire any long gun, yes, even shotguns need to be aimed. I would consider replacing the bead sight with a rifle type sighting system, perhaps using trijicon night sights or a peep sight. As far as pistols, one of the most popular pistols on the market right now is the Springfield XD. They come in .45, .40, and 9mm and are extremely well made guns. They have a new M model that has an additional safety, but the older models are just as nice. I personally use both an XD in 9mm and a 1911 in .45, and suprisingly, they have identical grip angles and very similar internal systems. A good Glock or Sig Sauer would also be good choices, both coming in a variety of models. If you want to go a little cheaper, the S&W Sigma series is okay, older Walther P-38s are around, Bersa makes some good carry guns, and you can't really go wrong with a Makarov (although ammo in 9x18 could become hard to come by in the future). For a lighter carbine, Ar-15 self builds with quality uppers and lowers, Bushmasters, Rock River, Colt, Armalite, and other name brands are good choices. For the AK lovers, the WASR is generally the cheapest though some seem to be put together by mutant chimps with severe mental retardation, the Chinese MAK-90 is a solid gun (I like the original thumbhole stock a bit), the Yugos tend to be quite nice, and Bulgarian and Arsenal builds tend to rule the show. Saigas are also a good choice, though you may have to convert it with 5 American made parts to get the true AK feel. I use an unconverted model in .223 that is a handy little rifle. The SKS is probably the cheapest and is an effective rifle for most circumstances. If you want to use the larger capacity mags, make sure you have a chinese or russian model (but please don't butcher those poor russians) as the others will crap out on you with the mags. Personally, I just use stripper clips, they are fast and easy once you get the hang of them. You also probably want to look into full size battle rifles as well, which means FAL's, M1A's, CETME's, HK-91's, M1 Garands and the like. They will cost you but will give you rapid fire long range tools to work with. The only problem with these guys is the cash... both to buy them and to feed them. I pay something like $.60 to .$70 a round to feed my 30.06 deer rifle, .308 (which most of those fire) is as or more expensive than that. You may want to take up reloading anywhich way you go though. When you do get optics for your guns, I hate to say it, but you get what you pay for. I.E. don't buy the cheapo $40 red dot as it will die quite easily. My brother uses a "cheap" red dot on his AR that cost him $250, it works "okay". They say that a good scope should cost half the cost of your weapon. Add in mounts, magazines, and ammo and you're looking at a very expensive hobby, though it could be one that saves your life. After you have the tools, you need training. Front Sight is the school I attended, and is well worth the money. However, there are programs all over that teach you real skills like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Gabe Suarez (AK fighting), and the ever popular Appleseed Travelling program. Good luck and have some fun with any new tools you get.
Oops, when I said "trijicon night sights" refering to the shotgun, I meant to say "tritium night sights"... sorry about that. (I would have edited my post, but for some reason I can't seem to be able to).
With the shotgun, I would really, really urge you not to cut off the stock. Despite what you see in the movies, a shotgun really is not fun at all to shoot with only a pistol grip. In addition it will make it quite a bit more difficult to aim effectively.
I want your body....
I would have suggested going here. Give me information as possible.
1. What experience you already have. How much time you'd have to shoot. How much you've got to spend on weaponry.
2. What kind of terrain are dealing with? Is there anything in the area that might affect your shooting or the condition of your equipment?
3. What state are you in? What crazy laws might the area in which you live have?
4. State really cuts down on this. Any information as to what LE has had to deal with over the past few years helps. Such as an increase in use of body armor and better weaponry by goblins.
5. What do you plan using it for? Will it substitute other weaponry on certain occasions or in an emergency?
6. Basically tell me what local law enforcement uses and what ammuniton is most common to the area.
Are you sure you have a Saiga .308 "Shotgun"? You do know that it is a rifle caliber and that the barrels on Saigas (except for the 12ga , 20ga, and .410's) are rifled, right?... That being said, the Saiga .308 is quite the effective rifle for its price. It has the punch and range of any other battle rifle, reliability of an AK, at about 1/2 the cost of one of the "real" ones like an FAL, M1A, HK91, etc.
I think that the Saiga is one of the best platforms, if not the best, available in its price range. Also, its versatility is great as well. You can get a Saiga in .223, 7.62x39, .308, 30.06, 12ga, 20ga, and .410. My .223 is lightweight and compact, plus it will eat pretty much any ammo I want to feed it. Wolf and other lesser brands, Mil-surp, commercial loads, anything. About the only problem that Saiga's have are magazines, but even those aren't too expensive and are found in many places... (I usually use a website called Saigastock for my magazine needs.)
However, like sanchez said, there are many issues that you should consider when purchasing a new weapon. If you live in a big city, you probably don't "need" a full battle rifle in .308 or 30.06 due to the shorter range of the engagements... A .223, 7.62x39, 12ga, or pistol carbine would suit your needs just fine. In the country its a whole different story. Police use a huge variety of weapons, though most rifles are usually AR-15's, M1 Carbines, or Ruger Mini-14's. Shotguns tend to be either Mossberg 500 or 590's or Remington 870's, and many departments use Glock or Sig Sauer pistols in .40 caliber. However, you could just as easily find 9mm Springfields, .45cal 1911's, .357 S&W's, etc. Essentially, you should really focus on buying weapons that at least have ammo commonality with your neighbors, friends, and perhaps the local police. Don't go out and buy a 25-35 win or a 257Roberts unless you really want it and can hoard enough ammo for it, because WTSHTF you won't find much for it. Get weapons that you can use easily, i.e. don't get a Desert Eagle in 50AE thinking it would make a nice carry piece. It's bulk, coupled with a difficult to find round on a good day make it less than desirable (I know that may tick off some Deagle Fanboys and Mallninjas). A weapon that is easy to learn is also ideal. Probably the easiest rifle to learn is an AR-15. It has fairly good ergonomics (I just don't like them however) meaning that all the important features are in the most natural places i.e. safety operated by firing hand thumb as opposed to having to work a major lever by removing your firing hand from the grip like on an AK. Bolt actions are also really really easy to learn on. If you are new to shooting, you should start off with a .22 like the Ruger 10/22. For pistols, you should probably learn on a revolver... get a .357 and shoot .38specials in it to learn how the gun handles, then step up to the defense rounds. However, I learned on an autoloader and its only slightly more difficult. Shotguns... well should be pump, as they offer increased reliability. The only major issue is short stroking it when you chamber a new round. Always rack it deliberately and you should have no problems. Depending on your size, you may consider a 20ga instead of the 12. Both my wife and I shoot 20's, ammo is slightly more expensive (i.e. 4.50 per box as opposed to 4.00 per box) but the reduced recoil is nice. If you are really worried about going up against opponents with armour, remember that rifle rounds of nearly any major caliber will penetrate up to a Level III vest. Level IV will only take a few... Failing that, head shots would be appropriate. Ammo is vital. Buy as much as possible. I keep at least 1k for each of my major semiauto longguns, and 3-500 per pistol caliber. Remember that 1 is none and 2 is 1 when dealing with a life threatening scenario like TEOTWAKI or Zombie Apocalypse.
i was actually being somewhat honest with the chainsaw thing, don't really see how you could do it though...i personally would get a rack for the shotgun for additional shells in a convenient location. Other than that i don't know
Very sexy.
Because the Muppet Show said so.
my personal recomendation would be go for the TAC-2 then cut off the stock and leave the grip but make shure you get the 22" not the 18" as that is 2 more shots before you have to reload.
Pistols I would go with one of these http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdSpecsView?model=3428
Rifles rifles rifles.... it all depends on what your going to be useing it for if you want to be sniping then I would recomend somthing like a sporterised brit .303 or a Dragonov but if your expecting them to get too close for the longer range then your going to want somthing that you can shoot fast and reload fast like a AR-15 or a AK-47
here are some that I can recomend (having fired them)
AR-15 (this one is more of an M-4 tho)
http://www.impactguns.com/store/COLT-MT6400C.html
AK-47
http://www.impactguns.com/store/ARM-SSR85C.html
The cheapest of the 3 the SKS
http://www.impactguns.com/store/sks.html
If you choose the SKS tho you will need to buy stripper clips as it does not have a detachable magazine and if you go for the carbine you will want to get a red dot sight and a rail system for it as well...
well thats my 2 cents and im shure that sanchez can expand on what I have said as well as NYE (where is he BTW?) .
Will you hold me back? If need be I will leave you behind...
Pistols I would go with one of these http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdSpecsView?model=3428
Rifles rifles rifles.... it all depends on what your going to be useing it for if you want to be sniping then I would recomend somthing like a sporterised brit .303 or a Dragonov but if your expecting them to get too close for the longer range then your going to want somthing that you can shoot fast and reload fast like a AR-15 or a AK-47
here are some that I can recomend (having fired them)
AR-15 (this one is more of an M-4 tho)
http://www.impactguns.com/store/COLT-MT6400C.html
AK-47
http://www.impactguns.com/store/ARM-SSR85C.html
The cheapest of the 3 the SKS
http://www.impactguns.com/store/sks.html
If you choose the SKS tho you will need to buy stripper clips as it does not have a detachable magazine and if you go for the carbine you will want to get a red dot sight and a rail system for it as well...
well thats my 2 cents and im shure that sanchez can expand on what I have said as well as NYE (where is he BTW?) .
I beg to differ about the SKS having to use stripper clips. I used to have an SKS and you can modify it to hold an actual mag. I had 2 30 round banana mags for mine. Only problem about an sks with a big clip like that is that they tend to jam after about 10-15 rounds of rapid firing.
EDITED by Dragisoni due to the use of the word "clips" when the word "mags" should have been used.
With the shotgun, I would really, really urge you not to cut off the stock. Despite what you see in the movies, a shotgun really is not fun at all to shoot with only a pistol grip. In addition it will make it quite a bit more difficult to aim effectively. A good cheek weld is necessary to accurately fire any long gun, yes, even shotguns need to be aimed. I would consider replacing the bead sight with a rifle type sighting system, perhaps using trijicon night sights or a peep sight. As far as pistols, one of the most popular pistols on the market right now is the Springfield XD. They come in .45, .40, and 9mm and are extremely well made guns. They have a new M model that has an additional safety, but the older models are just as nice. I personally use both an XD in 9mm and a 1911 in .45, and suprisingly, they have identical grip angles and very similar internal systems. A good Glock or Sig Sauer would also be good choices, both coming in a variety of models. If you want to go a little cheaper, the S&W Sigma series is okay, older Walther P-38s are around, Bersa makes some good carry guns, and you can't really go wrong with a Makarov (although ammo in 9x18 could become hard to come by in the future). For a lighter carbine, Ar-15 self builds with quality uppers and lowers, Bushmasters, Rock River, Colt, Armalite, and other name brands are good choices. For the AK lovers, the WASR is generally the cheapest though some seem to be put together by mutant chimps with severe mental retardation, the Chinese MAK-90 is a solid gun (I like the original thumbhole stock a bit), the Yugos tend to be quite nice, and Bulgarian and Arsenal builds tend to rule the show. Saigas are also a good choice, though you may have to convert it with 5 American made parts to get the true AK feel. I use an unconverted model in .223 that is a handy little rifle. The SKS is probably the cheapest and is an effective rifle for most circumstances. If you want to use the larger capacity mags, make sure you have a chinese or russian model (but please don't butcher those poor russians) as the others will crap out on you with the mags. Personally, I just use stripper clips, they are fast and easy once you get the hang of them. You also probably want to look into full size battle rifles as well, which means FAL's, M1A's, CETME's, HK-91's, M1 Garands and the like. They will cost you but will give you rapid fire long range tools to work with. The only problem with these guys is the cash... both to buy them and to feed them. I pay something like $.60 to .$70 a round to feed my 30.06 deer rifle, .308 (which most of those fire) is as or more expensive than that. You may want to take up reloading anywhich way you go though. When you do get optics for your guns, I hate to say it, but you get what you pay for. I.E. don't buy the cheapo $40 red dot as it will die quite easily. My brother uses a "cheap" red dot on his AR that cost him $250, it works "okay". They say that a good scope should cost half the cost of your weapon. Add in mounts, magazines, and ammo and you're looking at a very expensive hobby, though it could be one that saves your life. After you have the tools, you need training. Front Sight is the school I attended, and is well worth the money. However, there are programs all over that teach you real skills like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Gabe Suarez (AK fighting), and the ever popular Appleseed Travelling program. Good luck and have some fun with any new tools you get.
Be careful about that whole "cut the barrel off thing," you make a shotgun illegal in most cases that way.
"They drew first blood not me..." (Stallone in Rambo: First Blood)
Oops, when I said "trijicon night sights" refering to the shotgun, I meant to say "tritium night sights"... sorry about that. (I would have edited my post, but for some reason I can't seem to be able to).
I want your body....
I would have suggested going here. Give me information as possible.
1. What experience you already have. How much time you'd have to shoot. How much you've got to spend on weaponry.
2. What kind of terrain are dealing with? Is there anything in the area that might affect your shooting or the condition of your equipment?
3. What state are you in? What crazy laws might the area in which you live have?
4. State really cuts down on this. Any information as to what LE has had to deal with over the past few years helps. Such as an increase in use of body armor and better weaponry by goblins.
5. What do you plan using it for? Will it substitute other weaponry on certain occasions or in an emergency?
6. Basically tell me what local law enforcement uses and what ammuniton is most common to the area.
Are you sure you have a Saiga .308 "Shotgun"? You do know that it is a rifle caliber and that the barrels on Saigas (except for the 12ga , 20ga, and .410's) are rifled, right?... That being said, the Saiga .308 is quite the effective rifle for its price. It has the punch and range of any other battle rifle, reliability of an AK, at about 1/2 the cost of one of the "real" ones like an FAL, M1A, HK91, etc.
I think that the Saiga is one of the best platforms, if not the best, available in its price range. Also, its versatility is great as well. You can get a Saiga in .223, 7.62x39, .308, 30.06, 12ga, 20ga, and .410. My .223 is lightweight and compact, plus it will eat pretty much any ammo I want to feed it. Wolf and other lesser brands, Mil-surp, commercial loads, anything. About the only problem that Saiga's have are magazines, but even those aren't too expensive and are found in many places... (I usually use a website called Saigastock for my magazine needs.)
However, like sanchez said, there are many issues that you should consider when purchasing a new weapon. If you live in a big city, you probably don't "need" a full battle rifle in .308 or 30.06 due to the shorter range of the engagements... A .223, 7.62x39, 12ga, or pistol carbine would suit your needs just fine. In the country its a whole different story. Police use a huge variety of weapons, though most rifles are usually AR-15's, M1 Carbines, or Ruger Mini-14's. Shotguns tend to be either Mossberg 500 or 590's or Remington 870's, and many departments use Glock or Sig Sauer pistols in .40 caliber. However, you could just as easily find 9mm Springfields, .45cal 1911's, .357 S&W's, etc. Essentially, you should really focus on buying weapons that at least have ammo commonality with your neighbors, friends, and perhaps the local police. Don't go out and buy a 25-35 win or a 257Roberts unless you really want it and can hoard enough ammo for it, because WTSHTF you won't find much for it. Get weapons that you can use easily, i.e. don't get a Desert Eagle in 50AE thinking it would make a nice carry piece. It's bulk, coupled with a difficult to find round on a good day make it less than desirable (I know that may tick off some Deagle Fanboys and Mallninjas). A weapon that is easy to learn is also ideal. Probably the easiest rifle to learn is an AR-15. It has fairly good ergonomics (I just don't like them however) meaning that all the important features are in the most natural places i.e. safety operated by firing hand thumb as opposed to having to work a major lever by removing your firing hand from the grip like on an AK. Bolt actions are also really really easy to learn on. If you are new to shooting, you should start off with a .22 like the Ruger 10/22. For pistols, you should probably learn on a revolver... get a .357 and shoot .38specials in it to learn how the gun handles, then step up to the defense rounds. However, I learned on an autoloader and its only slightly more difficult. Shotguns... well should be pump, as they offer increased reliability. The only major issue is short stroking it when you chamber a new round. Always rack it deliberately and you should have no problems. Depending on your size, you may consider a 20ga instead of the 12. Both my wife and I shoot 20's, ammo is slightly more expensive (i.e. 4.50 per box as opposed to 4.00 per box) but the reduced recoil is nice. If you are really worried about going up against opponents with armour, remember that rifle rounds of nearly any major caliber will penetrate up to a Level III vest. Level IV will only take a few... Failing that, head shots would be appropriate. Ammo is vital. Buy as much as possible. I keep at least 1k for each of my major semiauto longguns, and 3-500 per pistol caliber. Remember that 1 is none and 2 is 1 when dealing with a life threatening scenario like TEOTWAKI or Zombie Apocalypse.
I demand more chicken nuggets in the future...
I think we may have forgotten a few important things when it comes to selecting most firearms.